Creative exile, the underworld, and siren power with Ayu (@astralpathways)

This is the first episode of How we stay human, a new thread of Velvet Philosophy where I sit down with people and talk about whatever's alive for them right now with no framework going in, no set of questions to get through, just curiosity and wherever it decides to lead. Being human is layered, textured, contradictory, and there are so many different ways to inhabit it. This series is about that multiplicity, one conversation at a time, one person's particular way of moving through the world.

I talk with astrologer and writer Ayu (@astralpathways) about creative exile, the Muses plucking the sirens' feathers out, the humiliation underneath the myth everyone remembers as seduction. We go into the underworld and liminality, into being thirteen and thirty in the same body. She tells me about a drumbeat under her ear at a campsite in Washington, of warrior mermaids, and about Poseidon sending sings until she finally listened.

It's a conversation mainly about voice, losing it, finding it again, and what it costs and gives you to let it be heard.

About Ayu: Ayu is an astrologer for multi-passionate creatives and a former magazine editor. She helps people move through creative exile into their fullest, most holographic self-expression. Find her on Instagram @astralpathways, and check out her upcoming 10-week group program, Holographic, launching this September.

Find me on: 

• Substack 
• Instagram
• arootedimpact.com - My philosophy program

Transcript

Velvet Philosophy Manifesto

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Welcome to Velvet Philosophy, a revolt against the flattened mind. An invitation back to the sensuous, the mystical, the rigorous, where the abstract becomes tangible and the intellectual turns visceral. This is a sanctuary for those who refuse to be domesticated by the world. Hello everyone.

Meet Ayu And The Themes

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Today is a very exciting day in the life of this podcast because I'm interviewing a dear internet friend. And today we're gonna geek out on mythology and symbolism and mysticism and storytelling and sirens and so many different things that I don't even want to spoil. But yeah, if you can't already tell from my voice, I'm excited. And first, let me introduce Ayu. Okay, so yes, Ayu is an astrologer for multi-passionate creatives, formerly a magazine editor. She supports people through their journeys of embodying their fullest creative expression after experiencing creative exile. So, Ayu, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I, like I said before, we started recording. I'm a huge fan of literally everything you do, everything you post and write. It's like a fucking spiritual experience to just like be in your world. And so I'm really grateful to get to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

That means so much coming from you. I am fascinated by the way that you share your creativity and the way in which you present yourself online. It's always so I don't even know the words refreshing, but like, yeah, it's there's so much aliveness.

Creative Exile Explained

SPEAKER_02 2:00

But I am curious about what do you mean by experience of creative exile?

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yes, creative exile. So this is a concept that I have been really in the depths of this entire year because this is an experience that I have had, and many creatives I know have also had. Essentially, creative exile is when you you know you're a creative, you have these creative expressions and outlets, but then at some point in your life, something happens where you get cut off from it. And that can look like maybe your parents were like, you shouldn't pursue art because it's not practical, it can't make you money, or in school somebody bullied you because, oh, you're writing poetry that's so lame and emo and dumb and whatever. Or even just living in the system of capitalism where it doesn't really encourage us to pursue the arts because creativity is about aliveness and expression, and it's not about output and production and making money and all of that. And so I think so many of us have experienced this creative exile where we kind of become maybe ashamed of our gifts if we've been humiliated for it, or just again, like that messaging around us of like, no, you cannot express this part of you, or no, it's dumb, or you shouldn't do that. But that part of us doesn't ever go away. It's still there. I like to say, if you were told that you shouldn't sing and you cut that part off, but that part of you still sings. And so I think this year for me within this concept has really been about getting really clear on my own journey through creative exile and pulling myself out of it and kind of stepping into this creative resurrection and really blooming into my full dimensionality.

Holographic Self Expression

SPEAKER_01 3:54

One of the words that I use in my business a lot is holographic, meaning expressing every single dimension of myself, right? Holo is whole, graph is image, depiction, right? So really stepping into that wholeness. And one of the things too with the hologram, what I thought was really cool is you can take any slice of it and you will find the whole picture inside as well. And so it really is just like to me, expressing the fullness of all of your interests, all of the different sides of you, you know, me being somebody who's like into Greek mythology and classics and also really into K-pop, you know, allowing yourself to be that full spectrum of human and allowing all of that to really inform how you express yourself and like letting the creativity kind of flow through you in all these different pathways. And so, yeah, creative exile is something that I feel like is just such an important, um, like a canon event for so many people, for so many creatives. Like, I feel like every creative I've talked to has experienced some kind of thing with that. And so I think it's just, I feel like it's my, I don't know, like part of my role or the role that I would love to take on in this life is to kind of help pull people out of that.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

So I that's so beautiful.

Illness And Stagnant Creativity

SPEAKER_02 5:07

It made me think of my own experience. Like, I I didn't consider myself creative for a very long time in my life. Like I was really focused on living up to the standard of being an intellectual, whatever that that means, and also worried about making you know money as an intellectual. Like that's another another similar similar to the experience of being an artist, like telling people that you want to be a philosopher is not necessarily the best. Yeah, you know, the response is not necessarily fantastic. It's not like, yeah, you're encouraged to do that. No, it's it's people are worried. Like, what will you do? What does that even mean? And so I was living in this, I want to be this intellectual, and then also I need to make money. So I was living in the corporate life and living like this dual life, you know, being a corporate person by day and a philosopher by night kind of thing, but never a creative. And then some years ago I got very sick. I was already sick, but I didn't pay attention. I think I'm now very in touch with my body as the as my medium of existence and the way that I relate to the world, but that isn't that that wasn't the case before. So I think it it came to a point of when it went way too far. That's when I paid attention and was told I had endometriosis. And I I've talked about this a lot because it's it's it's very important of who I am today. And the first moment that this thing made sense in my life was talking to this, she's like a witch, to be honest, and she told me like that's stagnant creativity. Your creativity is going nowhere, so it's literally kind of like inside, and it's it's eating you up because it has nowhere to go. And I was like, Well, I mean, I write, I've always loved writing, and my career allows me to write, but I don't see that as a creative pursuit, I see it as an intellectual pursuit. And she kept telling me, like, why do you think that that's different? Like, creativity is ecological. And today I say that thinking is also ecological, and I use those phrases because it's part of the experience of being alive, not like it belongs to some and then not to others. And that was very important in my own path. So I think I did have that exile, but it came differently because I never considered myself part of it and then was removed from that, and now doing it, and then considering what I do, the type of creativity and being creative and creating from the poor purpose of creation has been elemental in understanding myself and the journey with endometriosis and my life and my body and my experience and everything. So I think that's very interesting. Everything that you're saying about how we have this moment in our lives, right? You're describing as a crisis of identity, of what we are allowed to be or do and create because of that. And curious for you, how did you notice that was happening? Like, how did you notice that you were not allowing yourself to be your fullest creative self and the potential of what creation even means as a life?

Ayu Origins Of The Rupture

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So I when I was younger, pretty much my whole childhood, which when I say childhood, I include like high school, because that's I'm still, you know, a child. I was so creative. Like literally just it was just like a this inseparable part of me that I didn't really even think about. Like I was constantly writing stories. I literally have like stacks of stories that I wrote when I was like in middle school. And I played piano, I sang, I wrote songs. In high school, I joined a competitive acting team. So I was acting on the stage. And I think like the way that I see my journey is in my childhood, my creativity was just like my constant companion, and also my way of really understanding myself and the world and how to process everything that happened to me as a child. Like I remember my parents got divorced and they both got remarried. And as I was really trying to work through those feelings, I literally wrote a story about a girl who dies and then she enters the afterlife. And it's like, what happens when you everything you know you leave behind and you have to enter this new world? Like, can you find this new life after leaving the other one behind? And it's just like, okay, 13-year-old, I writing this kind of morbid story, but it's just like that's just how I process everything. And I think when I got into college, that's when I kind of started feeling ripped away from my creativity because a couple things happened. I mean, first of all, I felt like kind of like you. I felt like I had to be this intellectual person. And it felt at the time like it was at odds with my creative self. So I was like, okay, I need to prove myself as a smart person. I need to prove myself as an intellectual in these college classes. And the way you write for college is very specific, and that kind of academic environment sometimes can really strip you a little bit from that. But then on the other side of it, I felt this deep need and desire for belonging. But in order to achieve that, or the way that I tried to achieve that sense of belonging was like I didn't know how to be myself. And I was kind of shapeshifting and folding myself into who I thought I should be in order to find that belonging, which is looking back now, it's like, girl, just be yourself. That's how you're gonna find your people, right? But at the time, it's like, no, like I don't know how to be myself. And especially I think I am an eldest daughter, I am a fucking Virgo, and so it's like when I don't have other people telling me what to do or how to be, or what are the expectations, what are the rules, you know, that freedom you get in college. I was like, I don't know, I don't know who I am without other people telling me what to be, without like having to meet all of these like high expectations around me, you know.

Covenant And Creative Resurrection

SPEAKER_01 11:32

So I think that was the beginning of like really kind of ripping apart my connection to my creativity. And I think one of the things that I've realized now as I've done all this work this year around this is the covenant that I made with my creativity long before I was even born, you know, back when my ancestors were dreaming of a future with their progeny being alive on this earth. My covenant with my creativity is honest self-expression. And when I got into college, I was not doing that. I was not being myself, I was not being honest about that. And so I think that's kind of where it ripped. That was the rupture. And the more that I kind of chased belonging, it was like shape-shifting, folding myself. Who do I think I should be? What do I think is cool? What do I think rather than just being myself? And it really has been a very long journey for me, like over the past 10 years of really kind of having this push and pull of wanting to express myself and wanting to be creative, but also not necessarily knowing what it means to be myself and be uh authentic. You know, I think authenticity is a word that gets thrown around all the time or just be authentic, but it's like, what the fuck does that even mean? Like, especially if you're somebody who has been raised to be a people pleaser, it's like, how do I even connect with that? Like it's not just so easy as, oh, just be yourself and you'll find your people. It's like, yeah, but I have to kind of unlearn all this conditioning and all of this shame around that has kind of nestled into this idea of, okay, well, if I do express myself, then I get embarrassed or somebody doesn't like me or I get rejected or whatever. It's like really kind of breaking all of that down and getting to the core of it. And so my journey, I feel like, has again kind of ebbed and flowed because it's not like I never did creative things over the last 10 years. I did, but I think it really was like again coming back to that covenant of honest and true self-expression. It's like finally, I feel like I have come and arrived in that place. And that's when I mean like that creative resurrection where I feel like I have like gone into the underworld and I found where I exiled my creativity. And then I took her hand and we came out, we walked out together.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

So

Mythic Underworld And Liminality

SPEAKER_02 13:52

I relate to so many things, and I want to talk about the underworld.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

You know, it's funny. I feel like I have always been drawn to the underworld. I think my first experience of the underworld was probably like watching the Disney Hercules, you know, Hades and Hercules diving into the souls and you know, getting mad, resurrecting, and all of that, which was like, as you know, a kid, I'm like, oh my God, like the love, so powerful. But yeah, but I think like my understanding or my kind of diving into the underworld really is informed by Greek mythology. In college, I did a lot of study on liminal spaces, which I think can sometimes be an experience of the underworld as well. I mean, you know, the the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice and how he goes to the underworld to bring her back and is like walking out and then doesn't trust that she's there, doesn't trust that Hades is gonna keep his deal and turns around and loses her and how devastating that is. But even just like Theseus and the Minotaur and going into the labyrinth, like to me, that is a liminal space, right? That could be perceived as the underworld. He's going into this liminal space where there's the complete unknown inside and there's a monster in there waiting for him, right? And so I think as humans, we are constantly kind of going in this cycle of eventually having to cycle back into a moment where we enter this liminality, where we enter this underworld experience. And I feel like those times can be so scary, right? For us where we're just like, I don't know what the fuck is going on. I don't know how to navigate this. There's just so much shit happening. I don't know who I am. I feel like I don't have any ground to stand on. And so I think that's why I love mythology because it really kind of like gives us this mirror or this kind of guidebook of like, first of all, this has been happening to humans since time immemorial, right? Like this is not a unique experience to me that nobody else has had to go through. So in that sense, it's a little comforting, right? But then also just kind of seeing it and reframing it as being the hero of your own story, right? We think of the hero's journey, and it's like a big part of the hero's journey is entering that liminal space because that's where they're transformed and that's where they become the hero. And so I think that I've leaned on that a lot in my own life of just like, okay, to reframe those ideas of when you're kind of going through a hard time and be like, okay, going into the underworld, like going into the liminal, and even Persephone, right? She gets taken into the underworld and she comes out a queen. So it's just like there's so much power there, scary and as hard as it can be. There's so much power there,

Why The Abyss Calls

SPEAKER_01 16:38

too.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Yeah, it is scary, but it's also, and I think you will relate and other people relate. Like, why do you think it's so tempting? Like, why are we so drawn to the abyss, to the underworld? Like, speaking from my own experience, like I'm very, very drawn to that. And it's like a this pull. It literally feels like that, like it's pulling you towards it, even if it seems scary, even if it seems completely uncertain, you know, it's going into the unknown, this threshold, this liminality that you speak of, but it's still like you cannot resist it. And why do you think that so many of us are drawn to that?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

That's such a good question. I wonder if maybe it's like because there's this part of us that inherently knows that through that experience is the only way that we realize our full selves. Because you cannot you cannot become big and powerful and really like rooted in who the fuck you are, standing on that solid ground, strong ass spine without those experiences. So it's like I wonder if it's not necessarily the underworld that has the pull, but who we become in the underworld that is like pulling us in and kind of, you know, it's like, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, I mean, that's a question that I ask myself constantly. Like, why am I so drawn to that? Like, what is I don't know, trying to come through. And I like this perspective that you're saying, it's maybe not the space itself, but the experiencing of the space and the after.

Spiral Time Inner Child Work

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Like, and that reminds me to the other thing that I wanted to talk about while you were talking about your own experience with creativity, of how like growing up, we have all of these different interests, and we think that we need to choose specific ones based on maybe the identity we want to claim, or even the things that will be accepted. And I think it's so fun that in adulthood, whatever that means, you revisit them and then reclaim them, and you're like, that all of them can be part of me. I don't need to choose the ones that serve whatever purpose or whatever identity or will be accepted. I think you said you were 13 when you wrote that story, and to me, 13 is also like a powerful, and I think for a lot of people, a powerful age of living that right now. Like you could be in your 30s and being 13 at the same time, and it feels like it overlaps. Like I'm seeing you nodding, like, have you had that realization? You're living that at the same time. I feel time is that that descent, it's never linear, and that's one of the moments in which we can feel that. I feel myself being this teenager obsessed with gothic literature, and then me, a 30-year-old, being obsessed with gothic literature again, but from a different position of reclaiming it because of the descent. And it's like if it's a spiral, maybe the points are connecting in a way, and I can feel that overlap. And I think it's so interesting how the only way in which that overlap can happen is through allowing yourself that descent.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

No, I definitely understand. And it's making me think of I mean, I'm not a quantum physicist, but I love reading books about it just because I find it fascinating. And there's so many theories that are out, right, about how time is not this linear thing that we have, I don't know, at least in the Western world, been conditioned to perceive it as. But yeah, so time being this more spiralic thing, or even like everything happening at the same time. And I think it's so hard to conceptualize that. My human brain is just like, well, how is it possible that I am also living at 13 right now in this moment? But that's the science is saying it's like there's no past, present, future. It's just all fucking happening at the same time. It's just the way that we are perceiving it is, you know, different. And so when you were talking, that's kind of what I thought of. And I feel like one of my really, really cherished practices is doing inner child work and really connecting with those past versions of me. And I do that because I feel like there are these versions of me who needed so much. And it's like she wanted belonging, she wanted to be seen for who she was and validated. And it's like I get to give that to her now. And also, I feel like when I kind of go into these spaces, I will also call in my future selves and be like, bring me support, girl, bring me, give me advice, like kind of just really connecting to every version of me and seeing the beauty and the magic in all of that, even when it's cringy or you know, oh this embarrassing thing, like just really finding that self-acceptance in literally every single version and part of me.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

When I think about this, it reminds me of quantum physics. And again, maybe we try to make a distinction, but there isn't. It's a very mystical experience or a very mystical definition. And I'm curious if you relate to that when you're saying that you are calling in your future selves. I'm curious if it feels like a literal like you are. How would you say this in English? Like you are hearing what they say? Like, is there a communication? Like, how do you connect with all of that multiplicity of who you are, of who you will be, and being at the same time? Does it feel like a literal call and like a channel?

Channeling Future Selves

SPEAKER_01 22:22

I feel like it's kind of both and it's like my intuition, kind of speaking. Like you said, mystical experience that feels more like it, where it's like sinking into this place in me where it's like I literally can see it. It feels like a stage, walking out onto a stage. And I'm always when I walk out, I'm always my present self. And the version of me who always comes is the toddler version of me. And she's just because she's just self-shining her light. Like nobody fucking, no, no diffusion of that, no making her small. Like she's just such a, I feel like such a full expression of me. So she's always there and always holding my hand. I feel like she's actually the one fucking supporting present day me, honestly. But yeah, and then I'll just kind of call on like, okay, like who, for example, I feel like I'll get specific so that this can make maybe more sense. But when I was launching an offering last month, I was feeling a lot of old wounds open up, which I think you probably can relate to as a business owner, as like an intuitive business owner. And I was like, okay, I need to sit with myself with this. And I was like, okay, which one of you is being triggered? Where did this originate? Where did this wound originally appear? And it was, I think, like at the high school version of me who came out. And it's like I'm visualizing, like having this whole conversation with her and telling her the things that I needed to hear in that time as a high schooler. And then literally the version of me from last year came forward and was like, I'm so fucking overwhelmed and all this stuff, and I don't know what the future looks like. I'm so scared. And it's like I get to hold her and tell her that everything's gonna be okay. And then the way that I imagine my future self, then I'm like, okay, future self, like I don't know which one of you wants to come in, but one of you come in and the way I pictured is just like they are they're huge. They're huge because that's what I'm growing towards. Like I'm growing to become bigger and bigger and bigger and more in my fullness. And they come in and they just kind of hold the stage and emit that I don't know, it's like just like channeling whatever advice or something I feel like it's the same the way I hear it, I guess, is like the same way that I hear my intuition, where it just kind of feels like messages kind of dropping in, I guess you could say. So yeah, that's kind of my experience of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, that is what I was trying to say because it has felt to me like that. Like I think that's a great definition, like the dropping, it like something drops, it feels like that. Like I know some people say land, but to me, I like the drop word more because it feels that way, and it's fascinating that you have that process being able to tap into the multiplicity of who you are, and curious. I know you are very interested in mystical aspect of life, but you also have a lot of academic background. And do you think that everything that you know and studied about classics and texts and stories and mythology is now part of how you claim this practice, what you're just describing, of how you can practice tapping into this experience and allowing it to communicate with you?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

That's

Academia Mysticism And Humility

SPEAKER_01 25:32

a good question. You know, I definitely, when I was in college, I definitely took academia very seriously and tried to push to become this intellectual super smart person. And my major was religious studies with a focus on mysticism, and so I feel like allowing myself to explore mysticism from an intellectual perspective was such a gift to myself. Growing up, my parents were very spiritual. At one point, we were a part of this like ashram that like some people might call a cult. I just remember I was always surrounded by mysticism. And even my dad, he's from Bali, he grew up in Bali, and when he was very young, literally like a child, he was like, I want to become a priest. And so he was studying with the priest to, you know, become in that lineage and that tradition. And so it's like, I feel like it's just literally my DNA to just be oriented around this like mysticism, the spirituality. But I remember as a when I got into kind of into high school being like, fuck this, this is like fucking weird. I don't like this, like really rejecting it and being like, I do not believe the things that you all believe. And I'm glad that I had that time. And I'm glad that my parents really like, you know, encouraged me to find my own way. And so going into college was kind of that rebellion of like, I'm gonna look at this from an academic perspective as somebody who is like trying to understand this. And I don't know, it felt to me like, oh, like I'm better than you because I'm really trying to like see this in a better way or like not, you know, in a more neutral way or whatever. I think it was such a great gift to myself because I learned so much about like I think you know, academia can be problematic in a lot of ways of just, you know, we cannot ever remove humanity from what we're studying. We cannot remove the humanness. I think that's kind of the conclusion I landed at, whereas like I got, I came into it being so like, oh my god, like I'm gonna like, you know, debunk all this stuff and da-da-da. And then when I did my thesis, which was part of it, was doing all of this ethnographic research and interviewing people who had been a part of this ashram that I, you know, grew up kind of being in the orbit in. And I was like, damn, I can't say that this was a bad experience or a good experience. The experience lives in the hearts of all the people that were part of it. And some people had bad experiences, and some people had amazing experiences and their lives were changed. And so who am I to sit here in my fucking high ivory tower and you know, academia and be like, oh, well, this is a bad thing, and these people are crazy if they believe these things. But I think that really helped humble me, honestly, and help me kind of live this path in a more embodied way. Like it's like I had to kind of go through that experience, that kind of holier than the experience that academia can sometimes be, and really come back to like, you know, this is an experience that we as humans get to have, and it is beautiful, and nobody can really tell us anything about it. It's like that has to just be like our truth, you know. So I'm glad that I went through that. And I think also I was a magazine editor for six years, and it was a social justice magazine, so not really a whole lot of room for spirituality. And I think that also kind of helped me approach my own beliefs and my mysticism and all of that in a more grounded way because I have to kind of shift modes, you know. It's like I can hold the practical, I can hold the mystical. And it's like for me, the embodiment of being a human and living within the multiplicity and the multidimensionality and the mess, like that is a spiritual experience. We're not trying to like transcend this plane. It's like, no, how can we actually like be fucking in this present moment in this plane, like learning from nature, you know, this is the being a human is a spiritual experience.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

You are such an interesting person. I'm so obsessed with everything that you're saying in your

Staying Human

SPEAKER_02 29:36

story. And I just love the human experience, and that's why this section of my podcast is called How We Stay Human. And it's not like I'm obsessed with humans, I'm just obsessed with the layers, the texture, and the mesh and the craziness of what being human and living this experience that we call life is it's so interesting. And if we see it from that perspective of full curiosity, us caring for it, it's so multi-layered in the best way, and I love that we will never reach answers, and that's incredible. I think that we shouldn't want the answers, that's so boring, and living the experience, like you're saying, like trying to navigate through both perspectives and then understanding like that's just a distinction that you're trying to make to be practical, but the experience is the whole, the whole experience, the whole thing,

Mythology Deep Dive

SPEAKER_02 30:34

and speaking about curiosity and all of the things that we like. I really, really, really want us to talk about mythology because it's also part of this mesh of the human experience, of these archetypes that keep resurfacing, of the stories that are fascinating that we're drawn to, and these characters that we like, and who better to talk about mythology than you, that you're also obsessed with it. So let's do that. When you when you talk to me about chatting about whatever it is we want to talk about in this podcast, you said, but I do want to focus on sirens. And in a way, I feel like we've been circling it because of the calling, because of the voice, because of the unknown, because of the threshold. But now let's focus on that because I really do want to talk about it. So, what do you want to say, or how do we start this conversation about sirens?

Sirens Creative Exile

SPEAKER_01 31:25

I think we can start with the creative exile since we sort of began the podcast with that. I think sirens are really having a moment right now. It feels like this re-emergence of this archetype into the culture, which I love. And the things that we really associate with the siren as an archetype is the voice, right? Being able to have such a powerful and magnetic voice that you can draw certain things to you or that you can compel people to do things, right? The sirens in Greek mythology, they sang to the sailors and brought them to their deaths, which, like, if that's fucking iconic. But I think that there is a part of the siren story that really gets overlooked when we talk about the archetype of the siren. And as I've been deep diving into my own journey and reclamation and creative exile and all of this stuff, something that I have realized is that the story of the siren is a story of creative exile. And we see in Description of Greece by Pausanias is that Hera actually invited the sirens to be in a contest with the muses. And in a lot of ways, the sirens rivaled the muses in their creative gifts because they were, according to some myths, they were daughters of Terpsecor. So Hera is like, okay, let's have a competition. Like, let's see whose creative gifts are better, right? Because the gift of the siren is inherently creative, that singing voice, right? So they enter this competition and they lose against the muses. But not only do they lose, but the muses pluck their feathers out. This feathers that Demeter had given to them in order to find Persephone when she was abducted. They pluck out their feathers, humiliate them, and cast them off to their island. It's where we hear about them in the Odyssey and Jason of the Argonauts. And in their exile, that is really their exile, right? So they were ridiculed and humiliated for their voice not being quote unquote good enough, for their creative gifts not being quote unquote good enough, and they get exiled to this island. And I love this story because to me, the experience of the creative exile is so necessary because that is how we find the power in our voice. If they had not been exiled, would they have been able to find and connect with that depth of power to be able to literally compel people, men, to come to them and fucking die on their shores, right? Like that is a depth of power that I don't think any of us can really activate until we go down into creative exile, until we have that underworld experience. So I think that that is just such a powerful story that I would love to kind of bring back into the collective consciousness because yes, we love being a siren and being magnetic and all of this, but it also is adding that other layer of this experience that so many of us have gone through and how that can be where we find our power.

Power Beyond Binaries

SPEAKER_02 34:32

I love this perspective, and I wanted to ask you, I think you talked a little bit about it before, but why do you think that we either place them in this category of being mesmerizing from a positive connotation or the other side of there being very scary and like creatures? And like, why do you think that we have both versions? And do you combine them? Do you choose one?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

You know, I think as humans, there is, and I don't know if this is just social conditioning or if it's how our brains work naturally, I don't know, but I think as humans, we are really inclined to put things into binaries because it helps us understand, right? Like, oh, this is good or this is bad. And I feel like connecting with the sirens, which is something that I have done over the last three years now, is an energy that is extremely powerful. And so I think that the way that you're gonna experience the siren energy is very dependent on your relationship to your power. Like if you're scared of your power, they're gonna be scary to you. If you are ready to step in that, you're gonna be, they're gonna meet you there, you know? And so I think that's really what it is. And initially, when I was I don't want to say initiated by them, but that's the only way I think I can describe it. I was terrified. I was like, oh my god, like, am I being haunted? Like, what is going on? And now that I've come, you know, three years later from that initial experience, it's like, oh, like I still treat them with the utmost reverence, right? Like to me, they are, you know, not to be fucked with, you know. But I don't feel as terrified of my own power. And so I feel more like, okay, I can work with this energy and with this archetype rather than being afraid of what it's gonna open up for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

And

Ocean Calls In

SPEAKER_02 36:30

how does the space, the ocean as the space that contains, play into what you're saying? Because I've always think that we can do the same thing. The ocean can also be scary. But I don't like that in English we say good scary doesn't feel the same way that when we say in Spanish, or at least I think so. But I like good scary things, and the ocean can also be that. So wondering from your perspective, what does it mean that that's where the sirens are?

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Well, I feel like to answer this, I should share my story of how I was even chosen or drawn to them in the first place because it has to do with the ocean. So uh one summer in 2023, I went camping with my family on the coast of Washington, the Pacific Northwest is where I live. And I have lived by the ocean my entire life. I used to live in Bali, I lived in Florida, and now I live here in Seattle, Washington, and I have never experienced an ocean like the Pacific Northwest Ocean. It is so intense. Like I remember we got to the campsite, we set up the tent and everything, and then we're like, okay, let's go to the beach. So we walk, and I just before we even saw the fucking ocean, I was like, oh my god, I can feel it already. Because the ocean that I was used to in Florida and in Bali, it's like this very gentle come swim, come play, like you know, very clear water, so beautiful, sunny. The ocean here, it's not that. It is not inviting at all. It feels like an ancient god, which I mean all oceans are ancient gods, but that one to me, my experience of it was oh fuck. I need to fucking get on my knees and like bow to you right now. That is the immensity of what I was experiencing. And so the whole time we were there, I just was really feeling that energy and just being like, even when we were back at the campsite and not even in view of it, I could just feel the intensity of it.

Dream Initiation

SPEAKER_01 38:34

And at that time, my son was nine, 10 months old, and I had been experiencing postpartum depression, but I hadn't really admitted it to myself yet. And it was on that trip, I remember we went to see this tree, the tree of life, they call it, that's literally right on the ocean. And it's like this huge tree that it looks like it's holding on to the cliffs. The cliff is splitting underneath it and it's holding on to the cliffs. And I just remember looking at that fucking tree and falling on my knees weeping because I'm like, this tree is holding on for dear life. Everybody's coming here being like, oh, it's so beautiful, it's the tree of life. But it's literally like the bottom of it is being ripped from it, you know? And so it was like this whole realization that I'm like, oh my God, that tree is me. Like, I'm holding on for dear life. My foundation has cracked and I'm pretending that it hasn't, you know, because having a baby, it doesn't grow your heart. It literally obliterates anything that you thought you knew about yourself and how to love and life. And so I finally really came to terms with that on that trip. And then that night after I kind of had that realization, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna admit that I am depressed and I need, you know, to support myself and whatever. So we go back to the 10 and you know, trying to go to sleep, and I'm laying there, my my ear is on the earth, right? We're sleeping on the ground, and I hear this drumming. And I'm like, what is that? And I sit up and I can't hear it anymore, and I'm like, okay, I'm like looking around in the dark, and then I go back down and I hear it again. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I, you know, I shove my partner and I'm like, hey, do you hear that drumming? And he's like, What are you talking about? No, just go to sleep. And I'm like, okay, that's so odd. So I'm laying there and it takes me a while to fall asleep because I just hear this fucking drumming, and I'm like, what's this coming from? Am I going crazy? Like, what the fuck? I go to sleep, I have a dream, and literally my dream is being taken by mermaids, by sirens, and they're these, they're not, you know, little mermaid, they're warriors, they're protectors of the sea, they're intense, intense beings, and they basically take me to just witness. I'm just witnessing this ritual or this rite of passage or something. And I wake up and I'm just like, what the fuck? And essentially the message I got from the dream was like, We are here to work with you and strengthen you, but we can't do that until you're ready to fucking own your shit. And I was just like, whoa. Because first of all, I am psychic, but I have never been psychic in the audio way. Like I've never heard shit literally in my ears. Like it's only, you know, like we talked about before, kind of things dropping in, intuition dropping in, and maybe like psychic vision here and there, but never listening. So that was an experience for me. But it was so clear of just like, you know, we want to work with you. We're here to work with you, but you got to be ready first. But we're like letting you know, like, we're coming for you, so get ready. I didn't even know how to process that. But yeah, that was like my initial initiation into the siren world. And ever since then, I have been studying sirens and mermaids and just getting into the lore of it all, and finally reached a point last year where I was like, okay, I think I got the chops now to stand in my power in the ways that you're like clearly asking me to.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

So this story gave me chills. It's amazing, incredible, powerful, scary, good scary. It's interesting, and I was thinking about having a similar feeling. We couldn't have had this conversation as freely as we're having it now in speaking about myself a few years ago. And when I moved to the forest, which is not the ocean, but it's a different kind of immensity. I've always had weird, yes, another god. I always had very strange dreams. I've always had scary dreams, powerful dreams. But when I moved here, they I intensified. And the things that I was seeing and hearing and experiencing, they were crazy. And it just changed my whole relationship with everything, with myself, and like hearing your experience about this moment near this ocean that was so powerful, and I can vividly picture what you're describing. And I am so drawn to the Pacific Northwest, and I really want to go because I feel like I need to go. But it reminded me of that feeling of going into the forest and where the trees are so on top of each other that there's not a lot of light, and you feel completely surrounded, and you kind of have to surrender, but there's like this feeling of being observed. And I started asking, like, what is observing me? Is it just the trees? Is it something else? Is it a combination of things? And I started having dreams, these crazy dreams, and like these visions, and like I I don't know if I'm even ready to talk about it, but now hearing what you're saying, it's like yeah, these experiences are happening to us. People so wondering asking for myself and asking for everyone. But but when do we give ourselves the permission, or where do we allow ourselves to just be immersed in that? What needs to happen so that this responsibility is available for someone?

Kairos Divine Timing

SPEAKER_01 44:21

That's such a great question because I think you're right that we're not the only people who have experienced things like this. As you were talking this whole year, I've been thinking about the concept of kairos, which is the concept of time in Greek, but yeah, not like just like ticking time, but like kind of divine timing about how all the fate and the circumstances came so that in this one moment, this one thing could come through and happen. And, you know, I've been really trying to work with Kairos as an archetype this year and really, you know, trying to fight my urge to um rush things or getting into urgency and really like trusting in the divine timing of everything. And I think it's the same when it comes to what we're talking about. It's like there are going to be times where everything aligns just the way it needs to, that you're gonna be able to finally hear and like listen. Because if I really think back and throughout my life, I know that I have been visited by the siren before. I think my mom, she told me a story that when I was younger, we were at the beach and I came out of the ocean, and I was like, oh yeah, like that's my home. Like I I'm from the ocean, and like the mermaids are my sisters, and she was, you know, she's like, okay, like that's cute. Um, but so you know, it's like things like that where obviously I would never have thought twice about that. And even when she's told me that story in the past, it's just like, oh, you know, how cute of me. But now it's like, oh, okay, I can see with a new eye, with a new perspective. And so I think it is about that timing and just like there are certain moments in our lives where certain energies are going to call to us because it's what we need to meet in ourselves. And for you saying that right now, this like forest energy, like the ancient gods of the forest, the spirits of the forest are like really, really present with you right now, you know, that's definitely like where your attention needs to be and asking. I feel like honestly, we do not do this enough where we don't just ask. We're like, what do you what do you want? You know, and it's like not just like what do you want from me, but like literally just out of curious place of like, how do I initiate this relationship? Like, what are you here to teach me?

Poseidon Signs

SPEAKER_01 46:32

You know, I don't know if your listeners are gonna think like I'm fucking crazy, but also with the sirens, I've also been working with Poseidon this year. I am not an expert in like working with deities, but when I tell you Hemana that Poseidon was so fucking in my face, literally in my fucking face. Like, can I tell you how how in my face he was? So Ashley B. Jones, I'm sure you know your listeners know her. She gave me this year, psychic year ahead reading. And in the reading, she was like, you know, I think Poseidon, like Poseidon and Neptune, there's like that energy for you this year. And I was like, okay, I don't really know what to do with that, but sure. So then I just I kept getting these hits of intuition of like I need to maybe start exploring this more because I was like, I don't know what to do with this, and so I was like, okay, Poseidon, if you are out there, you know, we don't really know each other, but if you're out there and you want to work with me and you have something to teach me, you have something to show me, can you give me a sign? So then the next day I go to my mom's house and I'm in her garage and I'm like looking for something in there, and I see she has this bag of fertilizer that's called Neptune's Harvest, and it has a big trident on it. And I was like, uh Okay, that's not that doesn't count though. I was like, that doesn't count, that's just a coincidence. I was like, can you send me another sign? The next day after that, I wake up, I'm like downstairs making breakfast with my kid. I look across from me, my neighbor's fucking house uh floods random pipe burst, flood, water gushing out of his fucking apartment, and all the neighbors are running out to like help him, right? And I'm like in my head, I'm like, Poseidon, like you did not do that, did you? Anyway, we're like helping him and moving all his stuff, and then the next day I'm driving into my parking spot when there's this like truck here to do water remediation in the apartment, huge letters on the truck, Poseidon. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me right now? This is insane. And so I was like, okay, I'm listening. Like, I'm listening, I'm here, I'm listening. And I actually just finished doing this. Basically, I did like a covenant with him, and I was like, Look, I will create an altar for you, and I will come and sing at this altar for seven days, and these are the things that I would like help with from you. And I listed out the different things that I've been kind of struggling with going through, things that I would like support on. And Himanawana, I tell you, every single day during that seven days, there was like some blessing that literally was exactly aligned with the things that I had asked for. And so I really think it's like you can hear the call, somebody can tell you, oh, this is happening, you can feel it. But until you start to initiate that relationship and really, like you said, take responsibility for it, because I could have gotten those signs and then just done nothing, right? That's such a crazy thing. Like, how fun is that to talk about? But really being like, okay, so now let me write a letter to you. Now let me, you know, do this in a respectful way, right? Where I'm not just asking for things, but I'm giving every night, I'm singing a different song. And you know, I think also because he's the god of the sea and sirens and whatnot, I felt okay, I can honor you by giving you that song. And a lot of the work I've been doing this year is around my voice too. So it just felt very like aligned.

Asking And Responding

SPEAKER_01 50:01

But I think it really is. It's like all of the timing of it and settling into like, okay, I can ask. I can ask what this is about, I can ask for a sign, I can ask for clarity, you know, and they can give that to me.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I need to put this into practice and report back. I'm so excited about it, and I feel we could talk about this forever, and I'm so grateful that you're so generous and open to share about this and your experience with it all, and your experience as what it means to be IU. And just know that to me this was very meaningful, and it's gonna give me the curiosity to engage with this differently. And also, it's funny that you say just ask my whole thing, is the questions. I'm obsessed with asking the questions. Why didn't I think of that? Yeah, of course. I'll ask the questions and then have the ability to pay attention and respond and allow myself that responsibility. And I use that word because I really like it, the ability to respond. And yeah, this was just a fantastic conversation. You are such an interesting and fantastic person, and I'm sure that everyone's as fascinated as I am with you

Where To Find Ayu

SPEAKER_02 51:24

hearing this. So I want to ask you where can people find you? What are you doing? How can they contact you? What are you building? Like the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Well, thank you for first of all, thank you for this space and for being so open. I think the things that we talked about, like some people might it might be a little too crazy for them or whatever, which is fine. But I just really appreciate how you're such a curious, open person. And I think that is something that I really admire in people. And you know, obviously your work is so amazing, and I'm just grateful to get to like share this space and like have like this conversation with you. But so, people, if you want to to find me and work with me and hang out with me and party with me, you can find me on Instagram at Astral Pathways.

Holographic Program

SPEAKER_01 52:13

And I am currently in the process of launching a group program called holographic. Holographic, like the scales of a siren, right? Who found her creative voice and power in creative exile. Um, holographic. So it's essentially a 10-week program where we're gonna bring you out of creative exile. I'm gonna help you really like find your creative voice and self and step into that with more self-trust and confidence. It's honestly it's gonna be so much fun. That's like a huge pillar of my business, is having fun. So we're gonna do creative workshops, or we're gonna, I'm calling them meet the medium, or we're gonna do try out different mediums that you maybe haven't explored. Because, in my opinion, exploring different mediums is how you meet more versions of yourself. Um, and so we're gonna do zine making and writing SMUT and making Oracle cards. But then we're also gonna be having like co-creating sessions where you're gonna be working on your creative projects and really making headway on them because we need your creative work in the world. We need you to write the freaking book, we need you to make the deck or launch the Substacks. So there's gonna be space for us to all work on our projects together. And then there's also gonna be live astrology hot seats where you're gonna get my astrology and editor eyes and brain on your chart and your projects and essentially just doing astrology readings in the group and getting that astrological medicine too, because that's a huge part of what I do. So I'm really excited for holographic. It's happening in September to November. So if you want to check that out, I will give Jimena the link. And I'm just really excited and honored to be here. And if you enjoyed what you listened to, then come DM me and tell me. Like I literally love having conversations with people about this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

So

Final Thanks

SPEAKER_02 54:10

thank you so much, Ayu. This was such a great conversation. I'm very excited to continue the practices that we discussed. And again, thank you so much. This was beautiful, and please connect with her, but she's a fantastic person, and you won't regret it. And let us know what you thought about this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Have a great day.